Curse

Nude Nira · Apr 11, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

I'm not going to go through 80 pages of thread and assemble some mega post simply because you don't want to keep yourself up to date before you post.

Umm, I am up to date with this post, don't assume (yet again) that I am not, I am up to date with who provides semi-decent anti-LS and semi-decent pro-LS arguments, and I am also up to date with your pathetic trolling of this forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

So I have two questions for you:

1) Why attack me personally?
2) Why are you saying I insulted Cab when I didn't?
3) Why are you making stuff up?

Thats three questions, not two. Learn to proof read.

cebalrai · Apr 11, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

I was referring primarily to my post to Cab that Nude was responding to. Call me terse if you want but I didn't personally assault him, period.

I stand by most of that stuff though. Who doesn't think that people that spam complaints about Anet's policies on this forum are often uninformed, sour, whiney, impatient, confused, ignorant (because they don't read Anet's reasoning b4 commenting), self-centered, dense, immature (maybe they're kids though who post), use flawed logic, and trolling?

And I like how you included about half a dozen of my comments where I called someone's logic bad. Aren't we a little thin-skinned?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

I'm sure most of us post in a terse way when in an argument.

True, true.

Here's what I received from Nude, which is nothing like I've ever even considered writing, on any forum, ever:

IMO, you are a bad person, with a ugly personality, you should never be rewarded in life. Instead, you should see a specialist that can help you, that way you'll become a decent person and get decent rewards in life. GTFO, you've overstayed your welcome here long enough.

Please make a list of the nasty stuff Nude is spewing out.

*shrug*

Cab Tastic · Apr 11, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

I was referring primarily to my post to Cab that Nude was responding to. I didn't insult him, period.

I stand by most of that stuff though. Who doesn't think that people that spam complaints about Anet's policies on this forum are often uninformed, sour, whiney, impatient, confused, ignorant (because they don't read Anet's reasoning b4 commenting), self-centered, dense, immature (maybe they're kids though who post), use flawed logic, and trolling?

And I like how you included about half a dozen of my comments where I called someone's logic bad. Aren't we a little thin-skinned?

True, true.

Here's what I received from Nude, which is another level of comment:

IMO, you are a bad person, with a ugly personality, you should not be rewarded in life. Instead, you should see a specialist that can help you, that way you'll become a decent person and get decent rewards in life. GTFO, you've overstayed your welcome here long enough.

Please make a list of the nasty stuff Nude is spewing out.

*shrug*

I think when you enjoy playing a game it is easy to believe that those who develop it can do no wrong. Anet have prooved in my opinion that they can be influenced by the players on this and other forums.

I think Anet would be foolish to discount this poll as meaningless. You just have to look through the contents of this thread to see how little players gain from LS (if any). There simply is nothing positive about it at all.

As Anet are not going to debate this with us in person we rely on those for the LS to give valid arguments in their defence. But there is none to be seen here.

Anets official argument for LS talks of inflation but Observation of ingame prices do not support this argument. There entire reasoning for bringing in LS to help the casual player afford basic items is completely backward. LS hurts the casual player to afford nice armour, lockpicks, skills because these are now relatively more expensive.

I know pride will stop most of those for LS from admitting any of this but neutral observers will see the way the wind has blown. Maybe they have already considering how far this pole is in favour of LS's removal.

cebalrai · Apr 11, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nude Nira

Umm, I am up to date with this post, don't assume (yet again) that I am not, I am up to date with who provides semi-decent anti-LS and semi-decent pro-LS arguments, and I am also up to date with your pathetic trolling of this forum.

What do you mean assume that you're not? I posted a well-constructed (non-terse even!) response to Cab even on the very page where you suggested that I haven't made any points.

So I was assuming that if you missed my points (even if you disagree with them) that you haven't been following this thread, or your memory was failing you. Because I've made stacks of them. See my post last page explaining to people how a class of people with uber-income impacts the game as a whole for example.

Maybe you agree with Anet and myself when we both assert that normal players are harmed when farming prosperity reaches a certain point? Either you agree with it and said nothing or you just decided you'd launch that nasty personal attack...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nude Nira

Thats three questions, not two. Learn to proof read.

So... still not answering them?

cebalrai · Apr 11, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cab Tastic

As Anet are not going to debate this with us in person we rely on those for the LS to give valid arguments in their defence. But there is none to be seen here.

Cab, please address this post I made then. You have to realize that it's probably (I think) in line with Anet's rationale for implementing LS.

I can't read minds so I could be way off, but I really don't think Anet wants this dynamic in the game....

Change in price (inflation) for those 99% of items isnt the whole story. Assume 100% of items stay the same price for a moment. The non-LS solo farmer gets to buy EIGHT TIMES the amount of that stuff that's staying the same price.

If I'm poor relative to a non-LS solo farmer (assuming the same hours/skill/dedication/effort/experience), then we end up playing a different game. That solo farmer gets virtually all they want for all their characters and heroes, while I can afford much less, despite the identical effort.

In fact, I have to play a whopping EIGHT hours for every hour they put in. They equip eight characters/heroes for my every one. Or they get eight times more rare/interesting/attractive gear as me. I have to grind eight times longer than that person for cash. A three-hour after after school/work session by that farmer requires me to play for an entire 24 hour period without sleeping - just to break even with them. However you want to look at it.

This makes me less successful at the game relative to that farmer. And remember that success is all relative as well.

Nude Nira · Apr 11, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

Please make a list of the nasty stuff Nude is spewing out.

The things I spew out, are directed towards you, and only you, I cannot stand that after someone posts, 90% of the time you have to insult them on THEIR OWN OPINION, it's a opinion, my god.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

I was referring primarily to my post to Cab that Nude was responding to. Call me terse if you want but I didn't personally assault him, period.

I never said that you insulted him, I did, however, say you insulted reetkever.

HawkofStorms · Apr 11, 2008, 11:34 PM // 23:34

/requesting lock

Nude Nira · Apr 11, 2008, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

So I have three questions for you:

1) Why attack me personally?
2) Why are you saying I insulted Cab when I didn't?
3) Why are you making stuff up?

1) I attacked you personally, because I'm sick of you attacking everyone here, this is a topic based on peoples opinions, we should have the right to voice our opinion without being called ignorant/uninformed.
2) I didn't say you insulted Cab, however you seem to think I did.
3) What have I made up? If you're talking about me saying that you insulted Cab...I didn't, why are you questions always so vague and always stating that I have made something up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

/requesting lock

How about we just kick the trollers out of this post, and let it be a place where we can voice our opinions and not get attacked?

Fay Vert · Apr 11, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

This makes me less successful at the game relative to that farmer. And remember that success is all relative as well.[/B]

There are several play styles in GW that a player to choose to adopt. They vary in their rewards, some progress the story for a character, some reward a character with extra abilities, titles, rare materials with which to craft luxury armour etc. Farming was a play style that rewarded the player with relatively more wealth than many of the other play styles. Farming any of the hundreds of farm runs available to all players was a play style that if you chose not to persue, so its your choice that you didn't get eight times the loot of the play style you prefered. Just as I refuse to Faction grind, so I don't get teh faction benefits for farming that a faction grinder would. Its player choice, no amount of gold farming will get me the "friends of" titles, nore will it get me those end-game weapons etc.

When ANet introduced the loot nerf, they removed one aspect of game-play. While the excuse was to reduce the amount of gold in the game, what they did was restrict farming to a narrow range of activites. There are still some farming runs that are relatively unaffected by the nerf. Eg, take a 55 out of bergen bot springs, there will be little evidence of the nerf inthe drop rates, but take a trapper out and suffer the full impact and more.

People still farm, look at how the raptors are hit everytime there is an event, look at how CoF is hit repeatedly. The loot nerf is so badly implemented that certain farms ear every bit as much as before, so the flow of cash into the game is the same as before for the advanced farmers. The only thing that is really hit hard is the number of casual farms available for normal/casual players. Contrary to what many would say, farming is a very casual friendly activity, many of the farming runs were quite easy to do, you could spend as little or as long as you had available, with no commitments to other players. I know, for a great period of my play in GW I was a causal player, and I loved to farm.

The principle of the loot nerf is terrible in that it removes so many forms of play, like two and three man teams, five man oro farm, duo trapping etc. IMO that is way way too big a price to pay just to move the hard core farmers to other, but equally rewarding farm runs. The fact that loot scaling doesn';t even work as advertised but contains a time of kill element just compounds the error.

The hardcore farmers as still making just as much money as before, the problem is that the masses who casually farmed now no longer have that optional play style available to them.

The biggest problem facing casual players in the current GW economy is that while the value of gold may have risen as the supply reduced, the vanity items such as 15K armour are fixed and so are harder to obtain now than they were before the loot nerf.

The loot nerf gave us a different economy, some aspects better, some worse, some the same, none of which I care about, the economy is what it is, but what it did do was massively restrict the play styles available to any player, both hardcore and casual, and that is bad game design. If GW was just about the story and quests, we would all have stopped playing it a long time ago.

cebalrai · Apr 11, 2008, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nude Nira

The things I spew out, are directed towards you, and only you, I cannot stand that after someone posts, 90% of the time you have to insult them on THEIR OWN OPINION, it's a opinion, my god.

No go back and read how much of the time things are stated as fact. Very few times do we see posts here that say "in my opinion...".

Mostly what we get, (definitely including you), it assertions of fact and statements supporting these assertions. There's nothing wrong with that. Opinion isn't to be debated. But when someone (again especially you) posts in terms of facts - and makes assertions against others' assertions - then their post is fair game. *Who they are as a person is not!*

Look in the mirror. Your own posts have rarely (or never? ) been stated as opinions. Neither have Cab's, fay's, my own, and many others.

And your logic fails once again even in your personal attacks. If you're going to launch a barrage of personal insults in a forum, fine (if that's your thing). But the least you could do is not say you're justified in doing so because you don't believe in personal attacks.

hy·poc·ri·sy
1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.

Zahr Dalsk · Apr 11, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

I'd gladly give up my rights to trade with other players if I could have loot scaling removed on my account and no farm codes reintroduced. (Of course this wouldn't apply to me when entering explorable areas or missions with other players, and I would be unable to drop items for them to pick up.) Why? Simple. Because I don't care about rare skin weapons. I don't like trading with other players. All I want are my armour combos and my gold and the ability to farm the stuff I need instead of trading for it.

I'd rather remain separate from the Gw economy and get to have fun.

MoriaOrc · Apr 11, 2008, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nude Nira

How about we just kick the trollers out of this post, and let it be a place where we can voice our opinions and not get attacked?

Almost every conceivable opinion has already been voiced. All that's left is to troll each other about the same things that different people were trolling about 40 pages back.

cebalrai · Apr 11, 2008, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nude Nira

How about we just kick the trollers out of this post, and let it be a place where we can voice our opinions and not get attacked?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nude Nira

IMO, you are a bad person, with a ugly personality, you should not be rewarded in life. Instead, you should see a specialist that can help you, that way you'll become a decent person and get decent rewards in life. GTFO, you've overstayed your welcome here long enough.

You already hung yourself. I never posted anything like that beauty you put together. Yet you call for others' to get booted for trolling?

hy·poc·ri·sy
1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.

So yes, I'm calling you a hypocrite. And that's not an opinion.

fact
1. a truth known by actual experience or observation

Trolling
Someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response

Just go re-read your posts.

Sheesh, at least when I assailed people's logic when they were stating facts I was on topic.

Here's the difference between us: You made a whole post about what a rotten A-hole I am IN REAL LIFE. My comments, though terse and hasty, always directly had something to do with an aspect of the debate. I never targeted you in real life because I don't know you.

cebalrai · Apr 12, 2008, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

Almost every conceivable opinion has already been voiced. All that's left is to troll each other about the same things that different people were trolling about 40 pages back.

Lol that's a fact!

Commander Ryker · Apr 12, 2008, 12:04 AM // 00:04

As stated, this has gone on long enough and most people quit reading it a while ago. It's now just a bunch of +1's littering the thread so I'm closing.